Noble Group

(18-06-2015, 10:35 AM)specuvestor Wrote: 事后孔明

Very apt description. Like! +1

(18-06-2015, 01:55 PM)greengiraffe Wrote: There is a lack of activists here to stand up for minorities and hence plenty of crooks get away with their act.

Very true too.

(18-06-2015, 01:55 PM)greengiraffe Wrote:

(18-06-2015, 10:35 AM)specuvestor Wrote:

(18-06-2015, 02:49 AM)theasiareport Wrote:

(18-06-2015, 01:00 AM)specuvestor Wrote:

(17-06-2015, 03:34 PM)CityFarmer Wrote: You can read the full letter here.
http://www.theedgemarkets.com/sg/article...pen-letter

I find mr dee's letter strange. As an individual he could respond within an hour. I wonder how long did Morgan Stanley take to respond to the dot com allegations. Surely he cant be unaware of protocols?

Similarly since when did Morgan Stanley research reveals their modelling to the public?

And he still comparing Noble with Dow index. Maybe he should compare Morgan Stanley with CSI index

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but not to their facts. If someone claim mr dee was fired from Temasek after just a 20 months stint would he leave the guy alone? Why shouldn't Noble sue for serious allegations of accounting impropriety?

He has no skin in the issue yet he dare others to add skin to the game. And he wants to be contacted... Based on what? Advocate for Noble shareholders?

And thats with so called 30 years of experience. Probably not so sweet experiences. I'm glad i don't know this guy.

Isn't the bigger issue at hand the fact that his points are actually valid, and have been raised multiple times (but never addressed satisfactorily). I don't really understand the hatred against Mr. Dee here where he's actually seeking the answers for minority shareholders (who failed to get an adequate reply).

He's seeking the facts here - which shareholders are perfectly entitled to, especially when serious concerns about the financial statements are raised.

Hate? There's no hate I'm generally disgusted when people dont "talk" properly (VBs here will know). Besides what i raised above, the tone of his voice in the letter is revealing. Sure shareholders' request should be answered but the guy is not even vested according to him!

The playing field has to be even, like what i posted previously. Else the whole system will break down. You cant have a random person every now and then raise serious allegations without accountability. Its much more difficult to build than to destroy.

I disagree with GG we need more people like Dee, we actually need more people like Oei Hong Leong or even David Webb. 事后孔明 are dime a dozen.

Yancoal valuation is certainly not at current market price either. The dynamics with Yanzhou Coal is obvious. Receivables or inventory collateralised financing is not unusual. If anything it increases the chance the stuff are real.

The only thing i thought was interesting in the Iceberg report (i hope people read it) is the purchase and sale price of the subsi. Like i said before Noble is much more opportunistic and speculative in business vs say Olam, and likely aggressive in their accounting. But to claim they are fraudulent or not compliant to IFRS is another matter altogether

PS Iceberg had said that in the 3rd report it will reveal the author. It didnt. Noble has pulled out a name. The only thing respectable about Dee is that he didn't hide behind a facade

OHL is a corporate raider. IMHO, OHL is an opportunist. I prefer real businessmen like DR Wee, FF Wong, Towkay Charoen.

There is a lack of activists here to stand up for minorities and hence plenty of crooks get away with their act.

GG

Yup neither OHL Webb or Dee are businessman that's why I lump them together. Activists or raider is a very thin line for the large players. Natsteel shareholders benefitted tremendously from OHL but I can't say he is philanthropic. Ditto Ackman or Icahn

OTOH Charoen is hardly non opportunistic or non raider

In general I agree businessman are better than financiers, if and only if their structure shares fruits with shareholders. And in general I think harsher penalties and more clauses for minority oppression redress is better than activist investing because these activists are the same financiers which you 2nd rate and looking at short term equity gains rather than business development like a businessman.

Keep buying back to support the share price to in instill investors confidence ? Believe investors are more interested to see how management is going to improve the business and bottom line.

Suing a ten-years customer, to regain public trust? Oh...interesting...

Noble Group sues ex-China customer to block bid to wind up unit

SINGAPORE (June 19): Noble Group, Asia’s biggest commodity trader, sued a former Chinese iron ore customer of ten-years standing to stop any attempts to shut a Singapore unit over an alleged debt of US$102,718 ($137,038).

Noble Resources ( Financial Dashboard) International has been granted an interim injunction by the Singapore High Court preventing Rizhao Zhongrui Native Produce Co. from winding-up proceedings, and is pursuing separate claims against the firm, Noble said in a statement. A closed hearing is scheduled for June 25.

The Chinese firm shouldn’t be allowed to harass and “assert undue commercial pressure” with the threat of action, Noble Resources’ global head of iron ore and special ores Timothy Gazzard said in court papers. Zhongrui said it suffered loss and reputational damage over poor quality iron ore it bought and that Noble was aggressive and unreasonable.

Noble Resources’ “reputation and credibility would be in serious danger of being irreparably damaged,” if Zhongrui isn’t restrained from trying to wind it up, Gazzard said in the court papers. Zhongrui’s attempts may also trigger default provisions in banking and credit facilities, contracts with suppliers and customers and reflect negatively on parent Noble, he said.
...
http://www.theedgemarkets.com/sg/article...-wind-unit

Noble jialat liao lah, sounds like all the worms are really slowly coming out of the can.

If a ten year old customer has to go to court to try and recoup payment, it is very likely that Noble has been having liquidity problem internally to meet payments. Since its been going on since last year, it is very likely that Noble was badly hit by the commodity slump.

The irony is that it is a China company coming after a Singaporean company and not the other way round.

End-game is getting nearer. There might be more creditors coming after Noble soon.

"when it rains, it pours..."

The latest update on the saga...

Noble Group rises on buyback and China shareholder’s support

SINGAPORE (June 24): Noble Group ( Financial Dashboard) rose after the company bought more stock and its second-largest shareholder, China’s sovereign wealth fund, voiced support for the company for the first time in the wake of criticism of its accounting practices.

“As a major shareholder of Noble Group, we will continue to support its business,” Xie Ping, executive vice president of China Investment Corp., said in a Noble Group statement announcing the appointment of a new director.
...
http://www.theedgemarkets.com/sg/article...9s-support

(24-06-2015, 03:15 PM)CityFarmer Wrote: The latest update on the saga...

Noble Group rises on buyback and China shareholder’s support

SINGAPORE (June 24): Noble Group ( Financial Dashboard) rose after the company bought more stock and its second-largest shareholder, China’s sovereign wealth fund, voiced support for the company for the first time in the wake of criticism of its accounting practices.

“As a major shareholder of Noble Group, we will continue to support its business,” Xie Ping, executive vice president of China Investment Corp., said in a Noble Group statement announcing the appointment of a new director.
...
http://www.theedgemarkets.com/sg/article...9s-support

They are in the same boat , not a surprise !

The share-buy-back continue. A slightly below 2% of outstanding shares was bought to-date, base on the latest disclosure on 25 Jun 2015. More than $90 million was spent on the share-buy-back to-date, IIRC

(not vested)

One more initiative to restore confidence, beside the share-buy-back. The latest update shows the treasury share is slightly more than 2% of outstanding shares.

Noble Group appoints PwC to review its mark-to-market models and valuations.
http://www.theedgemarkets.com/sg/article...valuations

(not vested)