Here are the salaries of 13 major world leaders

(27-03-2015, 10:55 AM)specuvestor Wrote: Common sense to know that there is a disconnect between the pay scale and the common man on the street don't you think? I don't get it why VBs don't get it that the electorate that one serve cannot buy-in with your idea if there is such huge disconnect? Watch LKY documentary and you will see the biggest draw the old founders had with the common people is that they are in it TOGETHER. They have no escape plans. And make no mistake, the founders were not in it for the money. LKY was not exactly likeable by either the British, communists or UMNO.

I also wonder, why you don't get it, the common sense of paying market rate for talent. I am starting to think, that you "common sense" is more like Populism. A popular policy to please the mass (common men/women on the street), although non-practical.

Cannot buy-in? I am not so sure, there is always vocal minorities, otherwise PAP may already be voted down years ago.

(27-03-2015, 10:55 AM)specuvestor Wrote: Top talent in making money like TT Durai and many others even in "religious organsiations" may not be the top talent we seeking? That's why I replied to Yeokiwi that it is better to have integrity than talent up to a point of competence. You can have high pay for the Permanent secretary but not an inducement/ incentive for the elected policy makers. There is a big difference. I suspect a lot of what you guys are saying is swallowing whole what the rationale for the pegging system is without considering whetehr it makes sense in the big picture. Just like GRC started with a good idea. Just as public services corporatising to ensure high efficiency. And then it gets warped.

I am afraid that, we are looking at a big picture, rather than on looking at "cheap and good" in talent-seeking, a popular policy, yet impractical

(27-03-2015, 10:55 AM)specuvestor Wrote: So maybe Cory can guesstimate how much should US prez and China prez be paid? Maybe Jokowi should be paid $6m since Indo GDP is twice ours even when his people are scrapping by?

The pragmatic reality is this: you cannot be disconnected with your people, the grassroot, the electorate. Pay being viewed as an incentive is a major disconnect that will come back to bite. But you cannot pay too low such that the policy makers might be induced to take side-money like Teh Chean Wan. Indeed LKY is pragmatic... This was the catalyst that made him rethink about the human psyche. These are not my views... this are the essence of what LKY policy is. I don't agree with all of his policies, especially the social engineering ones, but his pragmatic approach makes sense.

I am thinking, may be this is what make Singapore outstanding, by doing differently.

Just in time..
I suggest that all should read the article in its entirety.
http://www.straitstimes.com/news/singapo...ented-team

Quote:One journalist told me that there was some public concern that these higher salaries would change, and I quote him, 'the name of the game and attract a different type of person with different motivations'.It is possible that politically and socially uncommitted people from the higher management and professional brackets will be attracted to the idea of public office for this higher pay. I doubt it.But if it is so, and they can do better than the present Ministers, they should come out and offer themselves as the alternative. That would be good for Singapore.

If this salary formula can draw out higher quality men into politics, whatever their motivations, I say, let us have them. It is better than the Opposition we now have...

I make no apologies for collecting the most talented team I could find. Without them, none of you would be enjoying life today in Singapore, including the reporters up there. I say this without any compunction.

Who pays for all this? A Singapore economy which has been so finely tuned that it is able to take advantage of every opportunity that comes our way.

What on earth are we arguing about? Except people get envious and they say, 'They should really be sacrificing.'

If it were possible to carry on with the system, I will be in favour of carrying on with what I have been familiar with. But I know it is not possible."

Pragmatism means you must take whatever that is best out there at an acceptable cost.
As to whether the person is dedicated, he or she has five years to prove it. I willing to bet that in most cases, the more talented ones are likely the ones that can understand the electorates better and balance with the needs to run the country with unfavorable policies.

(27-03-2015, 11:30 AM)CityFarmer Wrote:

(27-03-2015, 10:55 AM)specuvestor Wrote: Common sense to know that there is a disconnect between the pay scale and the common man on the street don't you think? I don't get it why VBs don't get it that the electorate that one serve cannot buy-in with your idea if there is such huge disconnect? Watch LKY documentary and you will see the biggest draw the old founders had with the common people is that they are in it TOGETHER. They have no escape plans. And make no mistake, the founders were not in it for the money. LKY was not exactly likeable by either the British, communists or UMNO.

I also wonder, why you don't get it, the common sense of paying market rate for talent. I am starting to think, that you "common sense" is more like Populism. A popular policy to please the mass (common men/women on the street), although non-practical.

Cannot buy-in? I am not so sure, there is always vocal minorities, otherwise PAP may already be voted down years ago.

I'm not populist. Even in this forum I am not populist

Paying market for talent is common sense in the COMMERCIAL setting which many in this forum are trained by. Paying top $ for talent in a policy making or even social welfare/ religious setting is not the key criteria. It is the wrong tree/ indicator

The writing is on the wall. Do you not see the trend of the votes? Impact from policies take time. Our transport problems didn't start with LHL. LHL style has changed significantly before and after his cancer treatment. His original mathematical methodology does not click with the masses. LKY was not populists but he stresses buy-in, discussions, and finally make the tough choices. There's a difference between buy-in because you can feel the ground, vs populist because you just want to make everyone happy. And this pay thing has been much more than 5 years old.

"If you want to be popular, do not try to be popular all the time. Popular government does not mean that you do popular things all the time. We do not want to be unpopular or to do unpopular things. But when they are necessary, they will be done. Popular representative government means that within each five-year period, your policies have demonstrably worked and won popular support. That is what it means. And if we flinch from the unpopular, we are in deep trouble." -LKY

(27-03-2015, 11:40 AM)yeokiwi Wrote: Just in time..
I suggest that all should read the article in its entirety.
http://www.straitstimes.com/news/singapo...ented-team

Pragmatism means you must take whatever that is best out there at an acceptable cost.
As to whether the person is dedicated, he or she has five years to prove it. I willing to bet that in most cases, the more talented ones are likely the ones that can understand the electorates better and balance with the needs to run the country with unfavorable policies.

I've seen the debate In short you are saying the Elites know better. There is a fine line between elitism and aristocracy and we know history has taught us lessons. Meritocracy which we grew up to understand and advocated is different animal... it involves like what Wong Kan Seng mentioned: social mobility.

And yes 5 years to prove it... but in politics it doesn't gets weeded out as easily as you think:
http://therealsingapore.com/content/pap-...t-sessions

(26-03-2015, 05:12 PM)Damien Wrote:

(26-03-2015, 03:58 PM)corydorus Wrote: Look guys, don't be blinded by ideology. Please use common sense. The cost of an F-16 Plane probably cost US$150 Millions. The whole cabinet + PM office cost much less than this annually. We are not paying something sky high imo.

I disagree hundred of millions price tag on LKY. To transform a nation if i know a person like him can do it, is in US$ Billions.

Btw, LKY did not do his job for the money, do you think he was attracted to the monetary benefits to do all that for SG? So we should pay more to deliver "better" results and paying more guarantees good results because we will get the best talent. Do you think it is that simple & straight forward?

Remembered LKY strongly supported market rate. Just like i said earlier we won't always get a warren buffet. The key now is sustainability. We are lucky to have LKY. How about next and next and next after ? We try to bias outcome to our children favor. He is around to fine tune and watch GCT and LSL. We are alone now. You want to throw dice with our life after ?

Get the best talent you can get. Let them focus on the country. It won't guarantee result alone but it doesn't exclude those who do not need the money. Is like we protect our bottom line. The rest is bonus.
COMMON SENSE !!!

(27-03-2015, 11:30 AM)CityFarmer Wrote:

(27-03-2015, 10:55 AM)specuvestor Wrote:

I also wonder, why you don't get it, the common sense of paying market rate for talent. I am starting to think, that you "common sense" is more like Populism. A popular policy to please the mass (common men/women on the street), although non-practical.

I don't get it, why each camp dont understand why the other party doesnt get it, or try to get their viewpoint understood (by the 'other camp'). From the advances we made in behaviorial finance, it is by now well understood that one can never win an argument online, simply because of cognitive dissonance and what more, something so close to the heart.

The Forefathers were driven by the raw desire to survive. His next generation has evolved and needs a different carrot to maximise itself in a different environment. The high pay is simply a symptom of the evolution of the Singapore Inc culture.

We have seen peanuts (Mrs Goh's type) been paid, and yet got some monkey results. But when one believes one has alot to lose with incompetency at the highest level, maybe it is time to buy some insurance to protect your 'valuable asset' now. Is high pay the insurance or 'put option' premiums that Mr Lee had foreseen that all should be paying?

I do not want my church pastor to be too highly paid. Not because I will be overly envious but, I know the flesh is weak - Success and money can change one's character for the worst. Paying top dollar for Top Talent to rule the country is not optimal but it could turn out to be the 'Uniquely Singapore' solution at this phase of her development.

Well if high pay is not the solution. May I suggest the VBs here to suggest what the system should be like and ensure this system can last the next 50 years? Alot can talk and talk very well but few can really do and do with results. Please don't oppose for the sake of opposing.

(28-03-2015, 07:25 AM)Life is a game Wrote: Well if high pay is not the solution. May I suggest the VBs here to suggest what the system should be like? Alot can talk and talk very well but few can really do and do with results.

High bonus tied to survey score done by a representative sample of the population. Survey needs to look at the long term objectives of policies. Survey to be drafted by (as much as possible) independent panel.

It's not the best, but I'm pretty sure this is academic. The ruling party probably knows this alternative and has never brought it up.. PAP isn't a party to rule by open democracy.

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(28-03-2015, 07:42 AM)thor666 Wrote:

(28-03-2015, 07:25 AM)Life is a game Wrote: Well if high pay is not the solution. May I suggest the VBs here to suggest what the system should be like? Alot can talk and talk very well but few can really do and do with results.

High bonus tied to survey score done by a representative sample of the population. Survey needs to look at the long term objectives of policies. Survey to be drafted by (as much as possible) independent panel.

It's not the best, but I'm pretty sure this is academic. The ruling party probably knows this alternative and has never brought it up.. PAP isn't a party to rule by open democracy.

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Can you give example who is considered independent in this society. The rich wants the economy to improve the others want the economy to stay as it is and still enjoy good lifestyle. Who is independent in this world, we all have an agenda in life, this is the truth.

Do you want a captain of a ship to seek survey from all sailors before deciding to brace through the storm ahead or head back port? Or a leader who is determined to run his course for what he thinks is the good of everyone. We can only trust the leader upon the very first day we are in the same boat. Singaporeans should stand United and not divided. IMO, a bonus peg to survey will cause the population to be even more dividend across all classes and an extra burden for the politicians who are already so busy building the country. Investors will also start to shun Singapore because of the uncertainty.

Whatever it is, various justifications seen or explained. Just a simple comparison across the major world leaders disclosed salaries doing the same "job" in this news just tell me is either some are grossly overpaid some grossly underpaid

Hi life is a game,

I would prefer not to go into specifics. Generally, a representative sample is okay, I am sure Singstats can churn out the type of people. As mentioned, I do not think that this idea would be brought up in reality.

The survey is not to dictate policies nor to influence. It may be a good feedback loop to calibrate. As for burden, the point is on details of renumeration, not whether it is purely fixed salary or fixed bonus. Vb buddies do dissect public listed companies' ceo renumeration and it has been usually the case where executives that are correctly compensated would perform well.

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