Here are the salaries of 13 major world leaders

(26-03-2015, 03:58 PM)corydorus Wrote: Look guys, don't be blinded by ideology. Please use common sense. The cost of an F-16 Plane probably cost US$150 Millions. The whole cabinet + PM office cost much less than this annually. We are not paying something sky high imo.

I disagree hundred of millions price tag on LKY. To transform a nation if i know a person like him can do it, is in US$ Billions.

Btw, LKY did not do his job for the money, do you think he was attracted to the monetary benefits to do all that for SG? So we should pay more to deliver "better" results and paying more guarantees good results because we will get the best talent. Do you think it is that simple & straight forward?

(26-03-2015, 03:58 PM)corydorus Wrote: Look guys, don't be blinded by ideology. Please use common sense. The cost of an F-16 Plane probably cost US$150 Millions. The whole cabinet + PM office cost much less than this annually. We are not paying something sky high imo.

I disagree hundred of millions price tag on LKY. To transform a nation if i know a person like him can do it, is in US$ Billions.

How are you going to account to your stakeholders including the common voters that while you chastised them for costing 20X a chinese worker, you are raking in millions. I will never forget GCT famously say that it is only the cost of a plate of char kway tiao from EVERY Singaporean EVERY day. Everytime I eat Char Kway Tiao I think of him sitting next to me So now everytime a fighter jet flies past I will have to remember PM sitting in it and waving at me? "not paying something sky high" is an ironic pun

And it is peg not on the welfare of common man but on indicators that basically encourages immigration (of rich folks) and GDP growth aka 7m white paper?? (which we have debated at length in other threads). They are not as disconnected issue as you might think.

Principles affect policy making. If focus is about PnL and hence remuneration then the policies like requiring public services to be profitable will emerge. We all seen how great that was vs the old model under underpaid Goh Keng Swee. By that extension Goh Keng Swee is probably not a good statesman.

Guys it has to make reasonable sense and not some ridiculous hedge fund astronomical numbers to justify their contribution. It is a disincentive... not incentive. That is why the common folks are saying the leaders are clueless and elitist. The writing on the wall is very clear guys.

Yes please use common sense. The 10X-20X (from junior minister to PM) figure is a guesstimate common sense figure that I think many are able to accept, not rounded to any perfect 4 decimal places. Others can have different ranges but it has to be within bounds of reasonableness vs the common electorate. Even at that range the ranking of salary of Singapore leaders vs global leaders is unlikely to change.

PS the condition of the latter Roman Republic was not so different from many democracies you currently see in Asia (though there were no direct elections) where money and power talks. Look north for a start.

or see this previous post: http://www.valuebuddies.com/thread-6324-...#pid109868

There is no perfect policy in this world. I ask myself whether I feel blessed living in Singapore. The water I drink from tap is clean, I have a safe night out, my money is not inflationary. If you ask me how much is all these benefits worth, I say it is priceless. And I credit this to all fellow countrymen who made all this possible. Big money comes with sacrifice. You know it by the health condition of our politicians and the time they locked themselves into policy making losing the luxury of what many commoners have.

If anyone want to bear hatred for the slightest misfortune in life and ignore the big picture for everyone good. Then it is very sad to know... money is only paper. You really think earn millions can bring it to the afterlife? I rather want freedom. Who likes to be caged and being scrutinised.

Which country is free of cor*****tion. Thing is we commoner only want a stable life and sustainable economy. Singapore has given both to me.

I always say it's easy to 纸上谈兵, go out and do it then you realise the hardship and comment what is right and what is wrong for the industry.

Don't think you or I are really expert in value investing and know how to make money from stocks because we are knowledgeable. Without a stable economy, which company you invest also pointless regardless of what value investing. Get this clear.

(26-03-2015, 05:12 PM)Damien Wrote:

(26-03-2015, 03:58 PM)corydorus Wrote: Look guys, don't be blinded by ideology. Please use common sense. The cost of an F-16 Plane probably cost US$150 Millions. The whole cabinet + PM office cost much less than this annually. We are not paying something sky high imo.

I disagree hundred of millions price tag on LKY. To transform a nation if i know a person like him can do it, is in US$ Billions.

Btw, LKY did not do his job for the money, do you think he was attracted to the monetary benefits to do all that for SG? So we should pay more to deliver "better" results and paying more guarantees good results because we will get the best talent. Do you think it is that simple & straight forward?

Unfortunately, it isn't an one-man show. If the issue is to get "one person" who is capable, creditable, yet has no issue with money, than a solution is pretty easy and straight forward. We need a team to do the job.

I agree with you, that pay more alone might not guarantee good result, more is needed. But pay less will very likely reduce the pool of talents available, with additional "money issue" in the equation.

(26-03-2015, 05:42 PM)specuvestor Wrote: Yes please use common sense. The 10X-20X (from junior minister to PM) figure is a guesstimate common sense figure that I think many are able to accept, not rounded to any perfect 4 decimal places. Others can have different ranges but it has to be within bounds of reasonableness vs the common electorate. Even at that range the ranking of salary of Singapore leaders vs global leaders is unlikely to change.

Common sense? I thought peg top talent with market rate of similar group, is a common sense, right? After a inclusion of complex "ideology", it has made a "pay-cut-yet-more-scarification", a common sense?

I admire late Mr. Lee for his pragmatic. Talents have made a miracle, and we need new group of talents to continue the miracle. It is for survival. Yes, I agree the high salary isn't well-accepted, but it is an operational issue. Survival vs operational? I can see clearly the choice, do you?

Operational?

I hope so lar (so that I could feel better).

1. Once I spoken to a Indonesia colleague about the confrontation period.
He told me that there is no need to do that any more.
Indonesia government just need to declare for example free air ticket, free ferry ride for one week for all Indonesia to come to Singapore
and celebrate Singapore National day 9 Aug.
This will be enough to crush Singapore to dirt.

I believe so too.

2. Once I spoken to a Chinese colleague about Singapore being a hot destination for both work and migration.
He told me not true.
Prior to Casino, he will never consider coming to Singapore.
He will go to Australia, USA or Canada but never Singapore.

Singapore has nothing.

I believe so too.

We are a miracle.
We are fortunate.
We are blessed.

3. When interviewed by TV program, a American housewife (who was a ex-politician in USA) who followed her husband working in Singapore.
"Singapore is a great place."
"Whereas you can send off your kids to school without any worries?"
"Even they come home late, no worries too."

When asked whether she will stay and retire in Singapore?
"No way. I'm here to enjoy."
"I will not give up my citizenship for Singapore."

I don't know how many FT will think like this.
But, I do appreciate her frankness.
We are a global city, not because we have geographical advantage.
Something had happen that make Singapore a global city.

Question is:
How long can we remain a global city?
What else can we help to maintain our current lifestyle?
If we make a mistake (in govt), will we continue business as usual?

And, finally what CF asked?
Survival vs Operational

Definitely operational - I hope.

There is nothing else I need to do - LKY"
Noted. We will takeover and do what's needed.
It's your turn to take a rest.

Love Compassion

Hedge fund manager got paid hundreds of millions. Probably $Billions for top player in the field but no one scream so passionately about the issue. But a Leader that help change millions of life for the better, provide growth for our children, carry the burden and stress of the nation. Life depends on him. Even $1M or $10M is too much. This world is crazy. Frustrating indeed.

Property Developer can top up his pay anytime Maybe your children will be paying 10X current property price but with salary of today when they grow up. Maybe not the next leader. Maybe the one after. To me is Penny wise pound foolish.

Yes, Please comes to our Sense !!

maybe after seeing this thread, the other 12 major world leaders' will play catchup to match our leader's pay..as they are probably underpaid....time to wake up world leaders...hehe

(26-03-2015, 09:58 PM)CityFarmer Wrote:

(26-03-2015, 05:12 PM)Damien Wrote:

(26-03-2015, 03:58 PM)corydorus Wrote: Look guys, don't be blinded by ideology. Please use common sense. The cost of an F-16 Plane probably cost US$150 Millions. The whole cabinet + PM office cost much less than this annually. We are not paying something sky high imo.

I disagree hundred of millions price tag on LKY. To transform a nation if i know a person like him can do it, is in US$ Billions.

Btw, LKY did not do his job for the money, do you think he was attracted to the monetary benefits to do all that for SG? So we should pay more to deliver "better" results and paying more guarantees good results because we will get the best talent. Do you think it is that simple & straight forward?

Unfortunately, it isn't an one-man show. If the issue is to get "one person" who is capable, creditable, yet has no issue with money, than a solution is pretty easy and straight forward. We need a team to do the job.

I agree with you, that pay more alone might not guarantee good result, more is needed. But pay less will very likely reduce the pool of talents available, with additional "money issue" in the equation.

I think it is drastically less. Except specuvestor that was once/still a opposition member, so far I have seen no one coming forward in vb forum to say that he/she is willing to take the minister job with 40k monthly salary, go for election and willing to be an mp for 15k.

Even specuvestor has not indicated whether he is willing to work his ass off for 40k.

It is just a matter of pragmatism.

I am ok if there are plenty of patriotic and talented singaporeans rushing for the job when 40k is dangled. But, if there are little, what will you do? Take anyone that comes by?

(26-03-2015, 10:13 PM)CityFarmer Wrote:

(26-03-2015, 05:42 PM)specuvestor Wrote: Yes please use common sense. The 10X-20X (from junior minister to PM) figure is a guesstimate common sense figure that I think many are able to accept, not rounded to any perfect 4 decimal places. Others can have different ranges but it has to be within bounds of reasonableness vs the common electorate. Even at that range the ranking of salary of Singapore leaders vs global leaders is unlikely to change.

Common sense? I thought peg top talent with market rate of similar group, is a common sense, right? After a inclusion of complex "ideology", it has made a "pay-cut-yet-more-scarification", a common sense?

I admire late Mr. Lee for his pragmatic. Talents have made a miracle, and we need new group of talents to continue the miracle. It is for survival. Yes, I agree the high salary isn't well-accepted, but it is an operational issue. Survival vs operational? I can see clearly the choice, do you?

Common sense to know that there is a disconnect between the pay scale and the common man on the street don't you think? I don't get it why VBs don't get it that the electorate that one serve cannot buy-in with your idea if there is such huge disconnect? Watch LKY documentary and you will see the biggest draw the old founders had with the common people is that they are in it TOGETHER. They have no escape plans. And make no mistake, the founders were not in it for the money. LKY was not exactly likeable by either the British, communists or UMNO.

Top talent in making money like TT Durai and many others even in "religious organsiations" may not be the top talent we are seeking? That's why I replied to Yeokiwi that it is better to have integrity than talent up to a point of competence. You can have mark to market pay for the Permanent secretary but not as an inducement/ incentive for the elected policy makers. There is a big difference. I suspect a lot of what you guys are saying is swallowing whole what the rationale for the pegging system is, without considering whether it makes sense in the big picture, and consistently using corporates as a misguided benchmark, under the old and failed Singapore Inc ideology. Just like GRC started as a good idea. Just as public services corporatising to ensure high efficiency. And then it gets warped.

So maybe Cory can guesstimate how much should US prez and China prez be paid? Maybe they should reimburse Deng's family with $100b bringing a billion people out of poverty? Maybe Jokowi should be paid $6m since Indo GDP is twice ours even when his people are scrapping by?

The pragmatic reality is this: you cannot be disconnected with your people, the grassroot, the electorate. Pay being viewed as an incentive is a major disconnect that will come back to bite. But you cannot pay too low such that the policy makers might be induced to take side-money like Teh Chean Wan. Indeed LKY is pragmatic... This was the catalyst that made him rethink about the human psyche. These are not my views... this are the essence of what LKY policy is. I don't agree with all of his policies, especially the social engineering ones, but his pragmatic approach makes sense. Middle path makes sense

PS entering politics is a possible choice, but I'm not thinking about $, I 'm thinking about family. Like I said, if one's primary thought is about money when $14k part time pay at least twice that of the common man should be sufficient to pass by, then one shouldn't be in policy making. OTOH if we demand that policy makers should also sacrifice their livelihood and get a $3k paycheck (hey that's higher than bottom 10% of the society!), that holier-than-thou ideology is not going to work in the long run.

NB I think I have posted enough. VBs know that I adopt a pragmatic stance either in investing or in how things work. Theory and real life are not the same thing. Ideology has to fit into reality, MPT has to fit into what we observe in Mr Market, not the other way round. That's what makes people like Deng, LKY and Jobs accomplish so much.