Investment for a living

It is all based on individual assumptions, and what you considered as "modest". So each of us has a different definition.

If based on your first thread, generating 15% return, you will need a much much lower capital.

(11-03-2015, 07:15 AM)funman168 Wrote: hi ntl,
my own estimation is
single, 500k cap, 25k pa
couple, 800k cap, 40k pa
family, >1M, >60k pa

(11-03-2015, 06:08 AM)NTL Wrote:

(10-03-2015, 11:09 PM)soros Wrote: In an earlier post, Big Toe has mentioned needing to invest $2-$3 Million for " living modestly ".

Assuming the mortgage has been paid off and not running a car , what do members consider the minimum annual income for 12 months is required for modest living by a retired person .?

If just consider 1 person, somewhere around $1500/mth (present value) will be good enough. For a couple, it will be $2500/mth. If based on 5% return, will need $600k invested, and additional saving of $150k for 5yrs of expenses.

after taking in the feedback from the buddies here, i think 15% is nt achievable.

(11-03-2015, 08:10 AM)NTL Wrote: It is all based on individual assumptions, and what you considered as "modest". So each of us has a different definition.

If based on your first thread, generating 15% return, you will need a much much lower capital.

(11-03-2015, 07:15 AM)funman168 Wrote: hi ntl,
my own estimation is
single, 500k cap, 25k pa
couple, 800k cap, 40k pa
family, >1M, >60k pa

(11-03-2015, 06:08 AM)NTL Wrote:

(10-03-2015, 11:09 PM)soros Wrote: In an earlier post, Big Toe has mentioned needing to invest $2-$3 Million for " living modestly ".

Assuming the mortgage has been paid off and not running a car , what do members consider the minimum annual income for 12 months is required for modest living by a retired person .?

If just consider 1 person, somewhere around $1500/mth (present value) will be good enough. For a couple, it will be $2500/mth. If based on 5% return, will need $600k invested, and additional saving of $150k for 5yrs of expenses.

15% is not achievable for Y after Y. If it can be achieved it means every 5 years your original capital will be double. Correct me if i am wrong. Check with CW 8888 in Singapore Investor Blogger. He has a chart actual return of the Gurus, GIC, TAMASEK, etc....
[ quote='funman168' pid='108773' dateline='1426033611']
after taking in the feedback from the buddies here, i think 15% is nt achievable.

(11-03-2015, 08:10 AM)NTL Wrote: It is all based on individual assumptions, and what you considered as "modest". So each of us has a different definition.

If based on your first thread, generating 15% return, you will need a much much lower capital.

[quote='funman168' pid='108770' dateline='1426029347']
hi ntl,
my own estimation is
single, 500k cap, 25k pa
couple, 800k cap, 40k pa
family, >1M, >60k pa

[quote='NTL' pid='108769' dateline='1426025305']
[quote='soros' pid='108757' dateline='1426000161']
In an earlier post, Big Toe has mentioned needing to invest $2-$3 Million for " living modestly ".

Assuming the mortgage has been paid off and not running a car , what do members consider the minimum annual income for 12 months is required for modest living by a retired person .?

If just consider 1 person, somewhere around $1500/mth (present value) will be good enough. For a couple, it will be $2500/mth. If based on 5% return, will need $600k invested, and additional saving of $150k for 5yrs of expenses.

investing is not the same if you at same time have a job, if you don't have a job can be scary. you have to factor in what if market tank like opmi says what if you pok?

if market tanks it's painful but you have a job and still have income you can afford to wait it out for your paper losses to recover.

if market tanks you don't have a job you don't have any income you will be under tremendous pressure to sell early and cut your losses because this seed money could represent a lot of things income for yourself, providing for your family or for your retirement.

The problem is retirees will find a lot of time on their hand for the first phase of retirement. Mobility is still passable, then you will find yourself spending more money on leisure. Some more money for seeing doctor for here and there problems.
How you spend your money is definitely different from when you are in your accumulation phase.
Heck! If you have been frugal all your working life, and you still can't spend your money a little more now then when?
Remember the saying, "ren chai tien tang, qian chai yin hang".
Ironically, we hope to achieve that too. We don't want to die penniless. We aim to leave something behind for somebody.

(11-03-2015, 09:49 AM)sgd Wrote: investing is not the same if you at same time have a job, if you don't have a job can be scary. you have to factor in what if market tank like opmi says what if you pok?

if market tanks it's painful but you have a job and still have income you can afford to wait it out for your paper losses to recover.

if market tanks you don't have a job you don't have any income you will be under tremendous pressure to sell early and cut your losses because this seed money could represent a lot of things income for yourself, providing for your family or for your retirement.

Dont quite agree nor disagree . For me i kept certain amt in cash waiting for market tank, the rest will be invested. As the market comes down, more money will be invested. The dividends received will maintain or increase. These dividends money will supplement my expenses.

I am not one who has done shorting before but one can actually short using CFD when the market tanks.

If one banking on capital gains to sustain income then i agree its pretty difficult unless he is proficient in using CFD to short the market when it tanks thus earning capital gain whichever way the market moves.

(11-03-2015, 09:49 AM)sgd Wrote: investing is not the same if you at same time have a job, if you don't have a job can be scary. you have to factor in what if market tank like opmi says what if you pok?

if market tanks it's painful but you have a job and still have income you can afford to wait it out for your paper losses to recover.

if market tanks you don't have a job you don't have any income you will be under tremendous pressure to sell early and cut your losses because this seed money could represent a lot of things income for yourself, providing for your family or for your retirement.

That's why I say investment is a different ball game when you reach your "de-accumulation" phase of life. You only have your asset and capital no more HC. Your total portfolio must generate enough cash flow for your daily living. If the market tanks for 5 years, will you be forced to sell your securities?
If so, then you have invested too much in the stock market. Or you have invested too many non-dividends paying stocks. Or the worse case your asset and capital is not large enough to sustain your daily cash flow need. In this case, maybe have to continue working at Macdonald or somewhere. Never say die lol!

(11-03-2015, 09:49 AM)sgd Wrote: investing is not the same if you at same time have a job, if you don't have a job can be scary. you have to factor in what if market tank like opmi says what if you pok?

if market tanks it's painful but you have a job and still have income you can afford to wait it out for your paper losses to recover.

if market tanks you don't have a job you don't have any income you will be under tremendous pressure to sell early and cut your losses because this seed money could represent a lot of things income for yourself, providing for your family or for your retirement.

These are the issues to be managed, and manageable IMO.

Maintaining a recurring dividend payout, should mitigate the cash flow issue during tough periods. Rotation of stock is another one might help to ensure consistence cash flow.

Maintaining an emergency fund, is also important. It will ensure no fire-sale for family expenses, if all above failed. A comfortable emergency fund, should be able to support up to 2 years of expenses.

Are these issues faced only by private investors? I reckon similar, although might not be exactly, are facing by similar self-employed profession e.g. agents and small biz owners.

(11-03-2015, 10:05 AM)Bibi Wrote:

(11-03-2015, 09:49 AM)sgd Wrote: investing is not the same if you at same time have a job, if you don't have a job can be scary. you have to factor in what if market tank like opmi says what if you pok?

if market tanks it's painful but you have a job and still have income you can afford to wait it out for your paper losses to recover.

if market tanks you don't have a job you don't have any income you will be under tremendous pressure to sell early and cut your losses because this seed money could represent a lot of things income for yourself, providing for your family or for your retirement.

Dont quite agree nor disagree . For me i kept certain amt in cash waiting for market tank, the rest will be invested. As the market comes down, more money will be invested. The dividends received will maintain or increase. These dividends money will supplement my expenses.

I am not one who has done shorting before but one can actually short using CFD when the market tanks.

If one banking on capital gains to sustain income then i agree its pretty difficult unless he is proficient in using CFD to short the market when it tanks thus earning capital gain whichever way the market moves.

I don't do short selling but not say never

but dividends levels are not guarantee, if market tanks follow by a period of recession if business bad they won't be able to keep with up the same dividends.

maybe for funman change job if unhappy, maybe after changing job perspective will be better maybe pay will be lower all the same since he only want a 30k return a lot of jobs pay this.

conforming to social expectations will be harder to manage because it's part of your life and your circle and depending where it's coming from family or in-laws or from work. if funman earning 100k/yr already facing this if standard of living drop to 30k how?

Some ideas if dares to be different buy a second hand sailboat like this guy live off grid and just sail around, earn enough money then go do what you like, no more money go back to work a while and then repeat
http://www.twentyeightfeet.com/

These guys also do the same, software programmer work offgrid from his sailboat party all the time looks like they having a lot of fun ... ah to be young, the nice video bit's are from 7 minute onwards
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RylPp6lkBw

These days i often tell myself..be careful wat u wish for, for it might just come true. Some 15yrs ago, i admired pple who are able to retire n just not work but enjoy life, travel, eat wat they like, drive luxury cars etc
thus i work very hard at running a few businesses n started to learn n master the skills of investing.
i attempted to retire at 37. Initially it was wonderful. But subsequently, i find myself burning out. Burned out running chores i had not done in my hectic lifestyle previously. This proved more siong n hectic than my previously hectic work life! In the end i find that working 3-4days a week is the best sort of balance for me. Luckily i am not an employee n i am able to adjust my own working times, otherwise i will really be in a fix.
My businesses n investing need little of my attention now that i already paid my dues.
so when i read this thread n other forums that pple yearn after retirement, i tend to ask myself: do they really know wat they are wishing for? i often refer this topic to myself: be careful of what u wish for, u might just get wat u wish for.
thanks for reading my story
have a nice day.