Investment for a living

Thanks guys for your inputs. I also think so although I am not so sure whether its a form of self-consolation that I am stuck in a dead end job earning lesser than most of my peers lol.

Need for Work life balance depends on your age.
When young, should chiong and trade effort for capital.
When old, should use capital instead of effort to make money.

Full time investing required minimum capital. At least 1-2 million.
If not, the opportunity cost of losing salary is higher than the returns
you can actually get.

If those with good paying jobs, better to follow a play safe investment strategy
to supplement your income. Until can cross the minimum capital threshold. Unlikely
will get rich.

To get rich, ride a bubble and quit while ahead.

Another way getting higher return other than investing in stock market is to strike out invest in your own business, see an opportunity or a gap perhaps and think can strike out on your own you should able to get more than 10% a year undercutting your ex-employer that's also doing something by yourself for a living. yes there's some risk but it shouldn't be high because the track record is there if you already doing working for someone so it's proof that is workable and there's ready pool of clientele who need it.

One of my relative did this saw a gap in his ex-coy and left to do himself, very niche market 1 man show low overheads, owns a nice place nice car go on nice holidays every year, should be getting "pretty good returns".

Earning/Investing for a living, is a mean for an end, not the end itself, IMO.

Work-life balance, pursuing an interest, more time for family at critical stages of life, are few of the example for the ends.

I have taken sabbatical from formal job some time ago, and devoted full time for my family, especially the little girl. I have accompanied her, in first few years of her life. Bathing, milking, and accompanying her, is the "ends" in this period.

Let's back to the topic, before going too much OT on personal stuff.

The best scenario to invest for a living, is base on 3% of AUM. It is a risk-free return. It means your family can be supported by 3% return of AUM. If a family needs 56K per year (approx with statistic of $4.7K per month with link below), the AUM is slightly below $1.9 million. I guess not many have the luxury of the free cash amount to start with. What is the next best choice?

http://www.singstat.gov.sg/docs/default-...keyind.pdf

IMO, the next choice is 5% of AUM, which should be achieve-able with dividends, with moderate risk. It means an AUM of slightly above $1 mil. If it is too much, what is the next choice?

IMO, 8-10% from AUM, is a very bare minimum to invest for living. It is probably the minimum sustainable long term return for active investment. It means a AUM of approx half a million to 3/4 of a million.

Of course, the size of the AUM, can be calibrated with a reduction of expected family expenses.

A return of 15%, with leverage, seems too risky for a long term plan.

17.3% Return.

http://www.maybank-ke.com.sg/latest_offe...Margin.htm

If anyone can get 8% from AUM in a sustainable manner, i think he can invest full time liu. (If he spends "normally").

Personally, I am using 5% return for supplementing my family income. Thats the dividend return for my portfolio right now.

(09-03-2015, 10:10 AM)sgd Wrote: Another way getting higher return other than investing in stock market is to strike out invest in your own business, see an opportunity or a gap perhaps and think can strike out on your own you should able to get more than 10% a year undercutting your ex-employer that's also doing something by yourself for a living. yes there's some risk but it shouldn't be high because the track record is there if you already doing working for someone so it's proof that is workable and there's ready pool of clientele who need it.

One of my relative did this saw a gap in his ex-coy and left to do himself, very niche market 1 man show low overheads, owns a nice place nice car go on nice holidays every year, should be getting "pretty good returns".

Usually investors and businessman are quite opposite in personality.
Passive vs Active
Pessimistic vs Optimistic
Think/Talk first vs Do first.

Generally, I think investors quite 'nua' one, and not suitable for business.

Watched TW talkshow recently:-

To invest a business operated by others, you need 三本"
本行 - operator must be from that industry/sector
本金 - operator must come with own capital
本人- operator must run himself, full time.

(09-03-2015, 10:52 AM)opmi Wrote:

(09-03-2015, 10:10 AM)sgd Wrote: Another way getting higher return other than investing in stock market is to strike out invest in your own business, see an opportunity or a gap perhaps and think can strike out on your own you should able to get more than 10% a year undercutting your ex-employer that's also doing something by yourself for a living. yes there's some risk but it shouldn't be high because the track record is there if you already doing working for someone so it's proof that is workable and there's ready pool of clientele who need it.

One of my relative did this saw a gap in his ex-coy and left to do himself, very niche market 1 man show low overheads, owns a nice place nice car go on nice holidays every year, should be getting "pretty good returns".

Usually investors and businessman are quite opposite in personality.
Passive vs Active
Pessimistic vs Optimistic
Think/Talk first vs Do first.

Generally, I think investors quite 'nua' one, and not suitable for business.

Watched TW talkshow recently:-

To invest a business operated by others, you need 三本"
本行 - operator must be from that industry/sector
本金 - operator must come with own capital
本人- operator must run himself, full time.

While I don't fully agree with the statement, I do fall into the "nua" category. I believe human are born to be lazy, and all technology advances enables us to get lazier.

The optimistic fellows will think that all technology advances enables us to get more efficient.

(09-03-2015, 09:31 AM)sgpunter Wrote: Agree with sgd that there are plenty of jobs out there paying 10k and more but disagree that finding and landing such a job isn't hard these days.

Anyway, I like this topic as I have been pondering over something similar recently albeit slightly differently. I currently work in a job earning a decent income with extremely good work life balance and plenty of time to conduct my own equity research and monitor the market. However, I am contemplating changing jobs with a higher salary of around 10-20% where job prospects are much brighter but the trade off is I lose my work life balance and probably won't have the time for my own research and what not.

On the one hand, I feel somewhat dejected that my former peers are earning mostly more than me but on the other hand, I am hoping to make up for that shortfall with the time I spend on personal investments. What would most people do in my shoes?

I agree on your point. Higher pay does lead to higher risks of losing all the possible time to invest in markets.

We are all different. Some have more resources and networks. Its hard to keep side by side and keep thinking of catching up. Take this analogy for example, those celebrity tutors clock easily 20k++ per month and they are good. Yet, at the other end of the spectrum, you have the more contented home tutors who are happy with 3k, 4k or any amount and they still find satisfaction (presumably) from what they do.

Like financial markets, some prefer equities and others do better with fixed income. There is no silver bullet to success. Having gone through various set backs (including losing money in fx markets), I learnt another important lesson. That is, it doesn't matter if the train is slow or breaks down occasionally, so long as you reach your destination somehow. All successful people start somewhere and I always find it refreshing to re-read some of their life journeys.

Focus at what you are good at and the returns will come later. Worry not of the wealth to come, so long as you work your best.