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(04-03-2014, 06:15 PM)orangetea Wrote: I see it as status quo.
A bit blant but here's my thoughts.
1. Europe too poor to fight.
2. Obama isn't the big brother state it used to be.
a. It has no extra funds to go to war.
b. Americans are tired of war.
c. Obama looked like a 'small boy' in the Syria incident after
wife says no to war and Putin 'saved' Obama's face.
3. Putin is gutsy, and he doesn't give a damn.
4. China won't intimidate their good neighbour and relations.
5. Sanctions? What sanctions?
6. Its Russia's own 'family' business.
Generally agree. And the lesson from rise of Hitler was that nations were too tired to fight another war.
But on the part of China, China is not exactly good terms with Russia since the days of Soviet Union stationing troops into Mongolia. But the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Most likely China will abstain or tilt towards Russia if forced to a vote, else they will just keep quiet
Before you speak, listen. Before you write, think. Before you spend, earn. Before you invest, investigate. Before you criticize, wait. Before you pray, forgive. Before you quit, try. Before you retire, save. Before you die, give. –William A. Ward
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What i have imply is that the fundamental issue for Ukraine is Economy. Leaning to Moscow for aid and being taken advantage of and loss their national sovereignty or independence, while further destroying their economic wealth being is insane.
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Base on wikipedia, the russian foreign-exchange reserves is approx US$510 Bil, so Russian sold 2% of its reserve in a day...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cou...e_reserves
Russia sold record US$11.3 bn to support ruble Monday
05 Mar 2014 16:48
[MOSCOW] Russia sold a record US$11.3 billion in foreign currency to support the ruble on March 3, when the ruble came under unprecedented pressure due to concerns about conflict in Ukraine, central bank data showed Wednesday.
The Russian central bank sold foreign currency to buy rubles and prevent the Russian currency from falling further in value, after the market reacted with panic to parliamentary approval for President Vladimir Putin's request to allow military action in Ukraine on what has been dubbed "Black Monday".
The information was disclosed in the Russian central bank's daily information release of currency interventions and no further details were given.
...
Ref: Business Times Breaking News
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America and NATO makes alliances with weak countries on the assumption that no one will dare to invade them.
Russia calls NATO's bluff twice by slapping around Georgia and Ukraine. NATO is too used to fighting against terrorist insurgents where NATO starts the war with immediate air, naval and ground superiority. Things are different when fighting against a rich and modern Russia.
(05-03-2014, 09:02 PM)CityFarmer Wrote: Base on wikipedia, the russian foreign-exchange reserves is approx US$510 Bil, so Russian sold 2% of its reserve in a day...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cou...e_reserves
Russia sold record US$11.3 bn to support ruble Monday
05 Mar 2014 16:48
[MOSCOW] Russia sold a record US$11.3 billion in foreign currency to support the ruble on March 3, when the ruble came under unprecedented pressure due to concerns about conflict in Ukraine, central bank data showed Wednesday.
The Russian central bank sold foreign currency to buy rubles and prevent the Russian currency from falling further in value, after the market reacted with panic to parliamentary approval for President Vladimir Putin's request to allow military action in Ukraine on what has been dubbed "Black Monday".
The information was disclosed in the Russian central bank's daily information release of currency interventions and no further details were given.
...
Ref: Business Times Breaking News
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without crimea in the bag I don't think nato will accept ukraine membership. Geogia after russia invasion of south ossetia in 2008 till now is still not part of nato. wash hand already ukraine will likely go the same way.
Ukraine made a bad deal now have security problem economic woe, if EU don't help I see only place left for ukraine to turn to is go back to Russia it will be an irony.
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(05-03-2014, 11:04 PM)sgd Wrote: without crimea in the bag I don't think nato will accept ukraine membership. Geogia after russia invasion of south ossetia in 2008 till now is still not part of nato. wash hand already ukraine will likely go the same way.
Ukraine made a bad deal now have security problem economic woe, if EU don't help I see only place left for ukraine to turn to is go back to Russia it will be an irony.
Agreed, Ukraine is not a NATO member and is unlikely to gain membership soon as there is a large pro-Russia segment in the population especially in the east and south of Ukraine. The new government did itself no favours by attempting to repeal a law recognizing Russian as a regional language on their first day on the job.
While the protestors were most likely receiving support from the west and John Kerry has just offered aid worth $1 billion in US taxpayer money, there are still questions as to the west's staying power. Now that the deal with Russia is off, does the west have the political will to subsidize Ukraine going forward without prescribing destabilizing IMF "shock therapy?"
Ukrainians might want to join the EU, but does the EU want Ukraine?
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The West has done China a big favour, by accelerating the closure of deal, after decades of talk. China should get the price she wanted, at least close to it...
Russia and China bolster ties with signing of gas deal
MOSCOW — Russia sees relations with China as its top priority and ties between the two countries are now at the highest level, said Russian President Vladimir Putin in an interview with the Chinese media released by the Kremlin yesterday, a day before his trip to Shanghai.
Russia is moving to bolster ties with China amid a bitter crisis in relations with the West over Ukraine, with its economy reeling from the dispute. Mr Putin is due to meet Chinese President Xi Jinping during a two-day conference on Asian security that starts today in Shanghai.
Mr Putin said yesterday that a deal on Russian natural gas exports to China is close to being signed, adding that it would allow Russia to diversify its export routes and let China meet its growing demand for energy.
“For Russia, implementing these agreements means diversifying gas supply destinations, while for our Chinese partners ... it could be a remedy for energy shortages and helps ecological security,” the official Xinhua news agency quoted Mr Putin as saying.
A deal after nearly two decades of talks would secure the world’s top energy user a key chunk of supply as demand for the cleaner burning fuel is set to surge. China is fast-tracking gas use, which is set to grow about 2.5-fold between this year and 2020, to curb use of the dominant but dirtier coal.
Russia, which sends the bulk of its gas exports to Europe, has sought to develop an alternative export link to China, but the two nations have been locked for years in difficult talks over price.
...
http://www.todayonline.com/chinaindia/ch...g-gas-deal
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(20-05-2014, 09:52 AM)CityFarmer Wrote: The West has done China a big favour, by accelerating the closure of deal, after decades of talk. China should get the price she wanted, at least close to it...
Russia and China bolster ties with signing of gas deal
MOSCOW — Russia sees relations with China as its top priority and ties between the two countries are now at the highest level, said Russian President Vladimir Putin in an interview with the Chinese media released by the Kremlin yesterday, a day before his trip to Shanghai.
Russia is moving to bolster ties with China amid a bitter crisis in relations with the West over Ukraine, with its economy reeling from the dispute. Mr Putin is due to meet Chinese President Xi Jinping during a two-day conference on Asian security that starts today in Shanghai.
Mr Putin said yesterday that a deal on Russian natural gas exports to China is close to being signed, adding that it would allow Russia to diversify its export routes and let China meet its growing demand for energy.
“For Russia, implementing these agreements means diversifying gas supply destinations, while for our Chinese partners ... it could be a remedy for energy shortages and helps ecological security,” the official Xinhua news agency quoted Mr Putin as saying.
A deal after nearly two decades of talks would secure the world’s top energy user a key chunk of supply as demand for the cleaner burning fuel is set to surge. China is fast-tracking gas use, which is set to grow about 2.5-fold between this year and 2020, to curb use of the dominant but dirtier coal.
Russia, which sends the bulk of its gas exports to Europe, has sought to develop an alternative export link to China, but the two nations have been locked for years in difficult talks over price.
...
http://www.todayonline.com/chinaindia/ch...g-gas-deal
This is going to be an expensive exercise moving forward.
Being sanctioned on left, taken advantage of on right by so called friend. Extra mouth to feed at the bottom. I think Russian got played into Western hands again.
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I think more like they were looting the tank
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/...k-mariupol
Here’s what happens when you leave a tank parked on a busy street
The Ukrainian army apparently left this fully gassed-up tank on a street near Mariupol. Naturally, people got curious — and then they got handsy. Not content with gawking at the outside of the tank, they started crawling inside, and inevitably, someone managed to fire off the still-loaded cannon. Abandoned tanks: All fun and games until someone loses a torso.
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Top class chess and poker player...
Putin softens stance on Ukraine
DOW JONES NEWSWIRES AUGUST 15, 2014 5:15AM
Russia President Vladimir Putin said that his country doesn't want a confrontation with the West, adopting a softer tone as he defied Western criticism by visiting the Crimean peninsula that Moscow annexed from Ukraine in March.
In a speech to Russian ministers and Crimean lawmakers on Thursday, Mr Putin said that Russia would do everything in its power to halt the conflict in eastern Ukraine. The president's low-key appearance, which wasn't carried live on Russian television, marked a change in tone from recent public appearances during which he has castigated the US and Europe for provoking a confrontation over Ukraine.
Mr Putin didn't, however, offer any concrete proposals on how to solve the months-old conflict, in which Kiev's forces have battled to oust Russian-backed separatists from several cities in the country's east.
Ukraine and Western capitals have accused Russia of sending fighters and arms to fight in the conflict, a charge Moscow has denied.
The standoff with the West has escalated in recent months, as the US and Europe sanctioned Russia companies and top officials for Moscow's annexation of Crimea and its support for the armed insurgency in eastern Ukraine.
"We must calmly and with dignity build up our country without fencing it off the outer world, without breaking ties with partners," Mr Putin said in comments carried by state news agencies. However, he added that Russia should not let others treat it with scorn.
Mr Putin's comments came as a convoy of nearly 300 trucks that Moscow says are carrying aid for cities in eastern Ukraine approached the border. Kiev has sent mixed messages over whether it will accept the convoy, saying that it may contain fighters or weapons to reinforce rebels and could even pave the way for a wide-scale intervention of Russian troops.
Analysts said Mr Putin's comments, and the aid mission to Ukraine, look like an attempt to demonstrate a more peace-minded stance a few days after Russia struck back at the Western sanctions by restricting food imports.
"The message is first, Crimea is now ours, and not a subject for negotiation, but also look if you mess with us we have the power to go further in Ukraine, and also inflict damage on the West," Timothy Ash, an analyst at Standard Bank, said. "By doing all this from Crimea, he is trying to offer negotiations, but from a position of strength."
The speech calmed the markets, pushing the ruble to a nine-day high against the US dollar. The benchmark Micex index also rallied to 1412.9, a level not seen since July 23.
Moscow responded to Western sanctions last week with a ban on food imports from countries that imposed penalties against Russia, a move that threatens to fuel inflation and hamstring already-flagging economic growth. Mr Putin said that these measures will be "painful for Western countries" but should benefit the Russian economy by encouraging domestic production.
Speaking about the situation in Crimea, Mr Putin said that authorities have much to do to build up the region and address problems that haven't been solved for decades. Mr Putin added that Crimea will receive more than 700 billion rubles ($21bn) by 2020.
Mr Putin also said that Russia will beef up military presence in Crimea, a mostly Russian-speaking region in the Black Sea.
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